Bible: Matthew 6:24
“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
Bible: Luke 16:13
“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”
When I was in Jersey, the 'cult churches' used to go on and on repeating 'Jersey for Jesus'
But it sounded hollow, vain repetition, along with the other games.
The problem with Jersey is, it is not for Jesus, it is an Island run on Finance, and an island injured by the occupation and not fully healed.
Jersey is not for Jesus, and cannot be for Jesus while it's governance is so conflicted by the crossovers between powerful and influencial figures who can be members of the government, judiciary, church and even financial industry, this group of people who hold too much power and who ensure that anyone who falls foul of one of these elite, usually ends up on trial, and ruined, because there is no fair and impartial governance and judiciary.
Other elements very present in Jersey are 'cult' practices, merged with certain churches, and Freemasonry.
I am not saying all Jersey people and churches are Freemasons or connected with cults, far from it!
But when Tim Dakin launched publicly on Jersey, he didn't seem to have either researched the Jersey culture, or taken into account what he was going up against.
But he isn't the one injured by the backlash, nor is that woman, Jane Fisher, who I guess, masterminded the utterly crazy public campaign against the Dean, which was as far from safeguarding as possible - publicly launching on a vulnerable person who is already destroyed publicly launching on an Island like Jersey, what did they expect, a Christian attitude of remorse and accountability and reconciliation?
Dakin's stupidity did me massive damage and caused the closing of ranks of that political/church/judiciary/masonic clique against me, and led to me being massively injured by a smear campaign run by people who had money, power and legal expertise and had forgot the basics of Christianity, and nothing was achieved.
I do not know how you deal with a culture like Jersey, I couldn't, and it drove me mad and left me thus destroyed, at the time not know why I was treated so badly and my complaint refused and covered up, but I do know that Dakin's way of doing things has left me seriously damaged and achieved nothing in Jersey except the knowledge that vulnerable people can be abused at will and will be destroyed if they speak up.
So, Jersey for Jesus? Or Jersey for money, cover-ups and destroyal of those who speak out, especially using the Victim's weaknesses and vulnerabilities against them.
As happened to me, and to Haute de la Garenne survivors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq6lJsBz9UY
Jersey isn't for Jesus until something changes, until those clergy and laity, who supported my abuser, and villified me, have a change of heart and put the cover-ups and vicious smear campaigns and love of money and security over Jesus' teachings, aside, and are accountable and honest, return to Jesus, and ensure that the vulnerable are not villified by their own mouths.
Jersey isn't for Jesus until those running the Church return to Christianity and leave the love of money, power and ego behind, leave the lack of accountability and the closing of ranks behind.
Until then they are in a prison of their own making, and island prison where they cannot be for Jesus, because they are supporting the Jersey way, which is not Christianity, and the Jersey way is money and power and ego.
'Jersey for Money', is all they can truthfully chant at the moment, because the cost to the vulnerable and poor and marginalised is very high, and the Church of England in Jersey, just as the Church of England in England, is full of well off people, with very few poor, Jersey's Churches, if anything, are worse for this.
Jersey has a Statue of the Devil as a feature, I don't recall a Statue of Jesus, but they can't serve two masters, so they are not for Jesus yet, that 'Jersey for Jesus' chant was another manmade freaky Charismatic/Cult thing, as was their much more frightening 'fire on Jersey, fire on you!' chant, that was very prevelant in St. Matthews and St. Andrews, that used to make me feel physically sick and frightened, because it is unnatural, it isn't to do with Jesus, and to an outsider, it was terrifying 'fire on you' would be a masonic thing or a curse.
I did not like 'fire on you' being directed at me, it may seem like something to do with Jesus to people in these cult churches, but in reality, there is no link or relationship to Jesus, God, or the Bible in it. And thinking clearly about it, Jesus would not have condoned such games. Do you recall him reproving his disciple, Peter, for offering to build booths for Jesus and Elijah and Moses and other things?
'Fire on you' is worse than that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq6lJsBz9UY
Bible: Matthew 3:1-11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."
ReplyDeleteBible: Acts 2:1-3 'When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.
I gather this is trying to justify the very frightening and cult-like Jersey practice of saying 'fire on you' to people, it does not.
ReplyDeleteJesus didn't tell anyone to say 'fire on Jersey or a person or a place' and it is very creepy and frightening, for me, having survived petrol bomb attacks, repeatedly being told 'fire on you' was very distressing and there is no Biblical evidence that this ego-based behaviour is acceptable, nor do the above comments justify it in any way.
Jesus Himself may have had authority to use fire and the Holy Spirit, and there is nothing wrong with invoking the Holy Spirit, but the cult churches on an island that has a statue of the DEVIL, who is very strongly connnected to fire, using 'fire on you, and fire on Jersey' for the sake of it, was very distressing as well as meaningless.
Imagine you are vulnerable, arrive in a place where you are not used to the very odd practices of a church, have survived being fire-bombed, and these people, without explanation, start saying 'fire on you' all the time, waving their hands about or trying to lay hands on you.
That is neither Christian, nor good practice, nor upholding any teachings, and the person attempting to defend it in the comment above, is just making oblique references to fire that do not condone the scary and worrying cult behaviour in Jersey churches.
I never asked to have 'fire on me', nor would I want it, I would not want Jersey going up in flames, and the person above could just as well make oblique references to hell fire and argue the other way instead of a crass defence by mentioning references to fire in the Bible.
'Fire on you' is about human ego and control, the way the cult churches behave, and the fact that they don't explain it to newcomers and vulnerable people.
Not forgetting that I am autistic and get the visual image of fire being on me and other people, although I override it, 'fire on you' does not represent God, and especially after the petrol-bomb experiences of my childhood, was very distressing, causing me at the time to flee a very strange culty meeting in St. Helier and have flashbacks that I went to St. A's seeking help for, and also to try and avoid this 'fire' being thrown on me in St. Matthews.
If these people were to say 'Holy Spirit on you' or similar, that would be a direct reference to something real, true and very much genuine and welcome.
And indeed the Holy Spirit was invoked at times.
Go into a normal mainstream church and try invoking fire on you, Gospel above or not, and the people will have serious concerns for your mental health and may even have you sectioned, look at it that way, some of the things going on in Jersey churches, including getting children to lay hands on people and invoking 'fire' on people, are not normal behaviours and are not safe.
ReplyDeleteAnd my experience of this is not drowned out by anyone using gospel passages that do not condone or uphold such behaviour.
Ginger nut wants to play, I am ok to play. We can play Bible fire and I will learn a LOT.
ReplyDeleteOne way of getting me to study my Bible! :)
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
Jersey and it's 'Fire' :):):)
ReplyDelete'[ Sexual Sins ] There are any number of ways to sin and bring down the Lord's anger, but sexual passion is a hot, blazing fire that cannot be put out at will; it can only burn itself out. A man who lives for nothing but sexual enjoyment will keep on until that fire destroys him.'
I have a feeling that someone from a certain Church in Jersey should have spontaneously combusted by now!
The prophets have hidden these sins like workers covering a wall with whitewash. They see false visions and make false predictions. They claim to speak the word of the Sovereign Lord, but I, the Lord, have not spoken to them.
ReplyDeleteMatthew 7:15
ReplyDelete[ A Tree and Its Fruit ] “Be on your guard against false prophets; they come to you looking like sheep on the outside, but on the inside they are really like wild wolves.
Matthew 24:24
ReplyDeleteFor false Messiahs and false prophets will appear; they will perform great miracles and wonders in order to deceive even God's chosen people, if possible.
'By their fruits' ie, is what they are doing genuine, does it produce good fruit? Harming vulnerable people and committing unnnatural practices as well as behaving in unChristian and dishonest ways kind of says that the 'fire on you' game is part of a bigger steering away from God and towards falsehoods.
ReplyDeleteGinger nut you are more than welcome to believe it is Kosher and back it up by Bible passages, but we could be debating it for a long time and still have our own views.
And while it is good to both read and understand the Bible and hopefully what the Lord wants, I am not sure blog posts will make either of us a better Christian
Ginger, I have a feeling you are going to take up a lot of my time, oh yipee. I suppose a debate never does any harm but within limits. You appear to read the blog very frequently. It isn't the best place for theology if that is what you are craving.
ReplyDeleteI believe that where a church practices compassion, the Lord is there, and where a church is using ego-based behaviors and controlling behaviours, they are veering from what Jesus would want.
Not being able to see the other side of the conversation, I can say I do believe that your last reply is all that needs to be said about the Church in Jersey, or indeed, any Church.
Delete"The greatest of these is love." That particular type of love - AGAPE - seems woefully absent in Jersey's CoE. It is the highest form of love in Christian practice. It is the opposite of the type of "affection" you were shown, and certainly the antithesis of your treatment by many of the selfish, defensive parishioners and their authorities in the courts, police and Church of England.
Thank you Elle.
DeleteThe conversation is, I mentioned how a culty game in the Jersey Charismatic churches, where leaders go 'fire on you and 'Fire on Jersey' and gesture at you or lay hands on you, is scary and doesn't make Jersey better.
Ginger, who is taking a very keen interest in the blog, posted a few quotes from the Gospel about 'Fire' as if to justify the 'fire on Jersey' and I was a bit startled and got carried away in reply.
Ginger's interest will encourage me to expand on my concerns and will increase dabate and publicity, and I am sure Ginger will be encouraged by your input too.
What we can do for those who have hurt me, as well as record it on the blogs, is pray for them, as those of them who pray, pray for me.
I pray that they will shed their insecurity and need for ego-based actions, and stand defenceless before God, and learn to love.
And I pray this for me too :)
It's a noble thing to pray for that.
ReplyDeleteI had a friend of deep faith explain to me that despite the wars and abuses and evil perpetrated in the name of Christianity, and no matter how irreconcilable many Christians are to each other's interpretations of particular scripture, the simplest test for him every day was whether or not a Christian statement or act elevated agape above all other ideals - because it is hard to argue that Christ did not do so,
Himself.
So my friend would ask, "Does it meet the test of agape?"
Without this as a test of what matters, we are doomed to squabble over those differences, losing sight of what is set as our highest human calling.
Thank you Elle, it is so easy to be human and lose sight of Christian ways, I certainly do. :(
DeleteA recent example of "fire on you" not to be emulated.
ReplyDeleteIn your blog posts you have shown quite clearly that for a number of people in the CofE, the church is simply a means of elevating their social standing. Well, that is clearly what they think. They are fools and heading for a fall.
People should be judged by how they treat others and not by how important they think themselves to be.
You are right that Jersey is, unfortunately, in the grip of Mammon, and, in its pact with the Devil, all sorts of base atrocities go unpunished. You, and the Jersey bloggers, are shining the light on all of this and there will be a day of reckoning.
Stay safe.
Thank you Polo. I think Ginger's interesting debate-starter means this post is going to go into my top ten posts for views, there are now 80 views of this, I think we can build on this debate and carry it further, looking at the perspectives in some of what happened in Jersey.
ReplyDeleteThere certainly is, from my experience, a problem with churches becoming club-like, and the majority of people being high up the food chain and doing well, and using church to help bolster their egos and make them feel better, the latter is not so bad, but it should not be done at the expense of the poor or vulnerable.
I understand your comment about how people treat others, but sometimes, as you know, I can be sharp and unkind, but not deliberately, but church should not be about importance, it should be the opposite.
Jersey is a struggling country, I pray, as I always have, that the grip over Jersey will be broken and the people freed.
You and Elle and everyone are a shining light to me too.
Thanks. It's nice to be appreciated.
ReplyDeleteJust to remind you, I am coming at this from the point of view of an unbeliever, but a constructive one, I hope.
Uncle Polo, you constructive unbeliever you! :) You are better than whole Deanery of 'Christians' in Jersey.
ReplyDeleteGinger hasn''t come back to play again yet.
I'm afraid your blogging is so prolific that I can hardly keep up, let alone reply to it!
ReplyDeleteOh, poor ginger plant, don't feel obliged, you could try eating assorted toffees, that tends to speed me up...and make me bonkers :)
ReplyDeleteGinger, why don't you save my blog so you aren't searching for it every time, if you are going to come and play every evening?
by save, I don't mean downloard, I mean save the search, because you always come up as typing in 'Anything and everything, Jersey blog', which amuses me, I am a Jersey blogger? :)
ReplyDeleteAnd when I mentioned Colchester, I didn't mean you.